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Door Disappearing[edit source]
After defeating Mom in Depth II, the Angel Room spawned upon the regular door I used to enter the Boss Room. After visiting the Angel Room, the Angel Door disappeared but the regular door isn't back. Hence I can't access the rest of the floor anymore and am forced to go forward to next floor. Have you ever experienced this ? I've search on the BoI reddit, Steam forum etc. and haven't found anything like this. I reckon it is a bug, maybe liked to the fact the Boss Room has doors everywhere during Mom's fight. I'm considering filing a report with my save, but wanted to check here before since I don't have enough experience about the game to be 100% sure. Benspartan (talk) 11:06, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
Statue appears again after killing angel in Afterbirth[edit source]
I noticed this, not sure if it was a bug or something, the angel room also seemed to stay every time I left, which is a bit weird considering I didn't have Goat's Head nor Belial's Book, is this intended behavior in the update or a bug? --Anon
Key Pieces and Conquest[edit source]
I wonder. Do the key pieces obtained from killing Uriel and Gabriel count towards unlocking Conquest? --126.96.36.199 04:33, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
- Imagine someone unlocking Mega Satan before Conquest. Wow. You'd have to beat the Chest or Dark Room once. That means killing ???/The Lamb 1 time, Satan/Isaac 7 times, Mom's Heart 17 times, Mom 18 times, and some random assortment of other bosses (5*18+17) times. I mean, you can ignore most of the listed bosses except Mom for this calculation, so truly it's only 6*18+17 (all of the bosses before Mom's Heart) bosses you'd have to beat. That's 125 bosses. You'd have to go through all of those bosses. You'd need to figure out the chance of the devil room paying out with no (tempting) devil deals in order to finish this calculation, and that's not something I really want to try figuring out. Hmm. Yeah, I guess it's possible? If you were really dedicated to getting all the way to the end in the minimum number of runs, it seems possible that you might not qualify for enough angel rooms in order to unlock Conquest. There's also the chance of an Angel Room not dropping an angel room item. Hmm. Anyway, once you've unlocked the key pieces, you'd want to pick up exactly 9 angel room items that are not key pieces, and then see if Conquest unlocks upon picking up a key piece. If you were willing to go through the trouble, I mean. I've got to say, it's a really good question that I can't feel confident answering. It depends on how the game tracks the items picked up in an Angel Room. Does it only recognize items from the angel room pool? I think the key pieces have the distinction of being the only items that can spawn in the angel room that are not part of the angel room pool. You can't reroll an item into a key piece. Does that mean they wouldn't count towards unlocking Conquest? Or, does the game only register "# of items picked up in angel room"? Presumably the only items that can spawn in the angel room are angel room items and the key pieces, so it would make sense that the game doesn't need to specifically check whether the item belongs to the angel room pool because it can reasonably assume that it does. Hmm. Bottom line is that I really don't think it's a question that can be answered well enough without somebody testing something relating to it. Try asking the modders at [their irc channel]. DoomZero [Admin] (talk) 15:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Any pedestal item taken in an Angel Room counts towards Conquest unlock, I tested it. --Anon
Angel Room Generation Chance[edit source]
I'm confused by one sentence with the new generation chance data of Metarkrai (thanks btw!) :
|“||The selection between Angel Room and Devil Room is made on the first teleport/door opening of every floor.||„|
Which Exschwasion made clearer, but not in the way I thought it would be :
|“||The selection between Angel Room and Devil Room is made at the start of every floor. The chance for the Angel Room to be chosen depends on the previous requirements and can be increased by certain actions, acting as bonuses.||„|
If the choice is made at the beginning of the floor, there's is no point seeking the bonuses. Or is it rerolled after beating the boss (if requirements are met)? Or this bonuses are for the next floor (the 10 coin donation explicity says the contrary). Isn't it simply computed once after boos clear ? Benspartan (talk) 09:28, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
- I think I misinterpreted the original sentence; I'm guessing it was supposed to mean that the selection is determined upon the first Angel/Devil door opening or the first teleport to the Angel/Devil room of each floor. --Exschwasion (talk) 16:19, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
It appears that the bug of "Sometimes destroying the rock does not trigger the fight" was added by an anonymous user with no proof. Going to delete it now as I've never heard of this before now. --Zamie (talk) 02:13, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
Angel Room Chances[edit source]
Is the data added by Metarkrai actually correct? Where did his data come from? This is HenryEx's updated Pastebin for Angel Room generation in Afterbirth, and I'm not immediately seeing how it matches the abstraction of a "strong" and "weak" chance. --Zamie (talk) 15:45, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I got all the probabilities using a HUD (from HenryEx) displaying the Angel/Devil ratio, and the strong bonus / weak bonus thing came out of it (I just gave it this name because it was easier to mention the mechanics with it). The pastebin is nice, it shows off how the calculations are done, and there was a simple mechanism behind which explains the chances that were seen with extra HUD. Back then, I didn't know there was a bonus/malus for making beggars pay out, which is why I ended up with 2 kinds of bonuses when the pastebin mentions 3 (additional flip with 1/2 chance of success, 1/4 chance of success, 1/10 chance of success). I only happened to know about that recently, and it appears that I messed up something in my notes/calculations, as I didn't see that the bonus from making a Normal Beggar paying out was weaker. (I redid the test and it does as said in the pastebin). My data is correct, but it's incomplete as it lacks 1 bonus and 1 malus, and as it also lacks (on that page) the new Sacrifice Room bonus. If I understand things right, the new bonus is another coin flip with a 15/50/65% chance for an Angel Room (depending on the "You feel blessed!" blessings) and that is even made when the prerequisites for the other Angel Room coin flips aren't met (seen a Devil Room opening and not paid health for an item). The calculations with this system match the values I have with Missing HUD. (It can't say the order in which this coin flip is made because the order of the coin flips has no influence into the calculations of the success chance.) Also, the 1/10 coin flips from Normal and Devil Beggar payouts don't cancel each other in terms of probabilities. (ex : With base chance + both payouts, you'll have a 45-4.5 = 40.50% chance to get an Angel Room)(also tested with Missing HUD) So unless HenryEx was speaking of the 1/10 coin flips not being made if both Normal and Devil Beggar paid out, they actually don't cancel each other (but the result is near a cancel). I wrote a formula using the (Devil ratio without "You feel blessed!") for the Sacrifice Room bonus as it seemed easier to explain than using a 1-(Angel ratio without "You feel blessed!") value, even if the second one is the one that "truly" counts since the game makes coin flips to generate an Angel Room over a default Devil Room. Thanks for the juicy and interesting information. --Metarkrai (talk) 2:10, 11 December 2015 (UTC)
Can you update this page so that it fully matches the HenryEx pastebin? After that is done, we can go ahead and fix my (incorrect) percentages on the Sacrifice Room page too. --Zamie (talk) 22:02, 13 December 2015 (UTC)
Since the page hasn't been updated yet, here's my proposed rework. It still needs some explanation as to how the series of coin flips works and maybe some examples. --Exschwasion (talk) 21:05, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
[snip; integrated into the main page already]
- There is no mention that the percentage modifiers are multiplicative. For example, if the base chance of 50% and the Rosary Bead gives a 50% chance increase, then it is implied that it is a 100% chance to get an Angel Room, which is not the case.
- It is implied that the "You feel blessed" effect happens 100% of the time, but this is not the case.
As Zamie said, each condition gives an additional coin flip (with its own success chance). And if at least one of the coin flip succeeds, an Angel Room appears. (except for the Devil Beggar payout condition that forces a Devil Room over the other coin flips). With base chance and Rosary Bead, you would have a 0.5*0.5 = 0.25 = 25% chance to fail the two coin flips, which means 25% chance to get a Devil Room, and 75% chance to get an Angel Room. Also, the "You feel blessed!" effect represents a single coin flip, with a variable success chance (depending on the blessings you got from the Sacrifice Room). I tried writing an explanation for that mechanic too:
[snip; integrated into the main page already]
Statue disappearing after taking "evil" item as boss reward[edit source]
Hey peeps I had something weird happen not described here: After defeating a boss, I headed into the spawned angel room before picking the reward up. Took the angels items, walked back out, and took the boss reward, which I believe was a pentagram but couldn've been another "evil" item. Going back in the angel room, a "broken rock" sound effect played; I noticed nothing different, but after exiting and reentering the room, the angel statue was gone! I also had not beaten the chest/dark room at the time. Also I was playing this on "vanilla" rebirth.